Shma是一家拥有多学科团队、以研究为基础的景观设计公司，包括Shma、Shma Soen、Shma Lab和Shma Media 四大板块。在过去的16年里，Shma已经超越了仅作为一家景观设计公司的使命，一直致力于建立可持续发展事业，优先从全球视角出发，着重考虑三大原则：城市、环境和人，坚信好的设计是共建世界可持续未来的起点。

▲Shma 四大板块：Shma、Shma Soen、Shma Lab、Shma Media

近期Shma迎来了16周年庆，作为景观自媒体以及相识已久的老朋友，景观邦创始合伙人邓妃才与Shma三位创始合伙人展开了一场别开生面的访谈。在这次访谈中，Shma三位创始人分享了公司的成长历程和创立契机、独特的工作环境和核心价值观、以及他们为创造美好地球付出的一系列实践故事。

▲景观邦邓妃才与Shma三位创始人16周年访谈

▲访谈视频 一

▲访谈视频 二

访谈内容

01

能否和大家分享一下三位是在什么契机下创立的Shma?

In what circumstances did your three co-found Shma?

在一个很恰当的时机！我们在经济危机爆发的时候开始我们的职业生涯的，可以说我们三个都是在新加坡真正开始了专业的历练。因此，在几年之后，你七年？五年半/七年/四年半。在新加坡的工作后，我们都很想家，然后很想回去。我们觉得当时泰国，尤其是曼谷是很需要景观设计师来做正确的工作的，所以从那时开始创立Shma。我想我们希望带来一些新鲜的想法，带回我们的经验能为泰国做些贡献，但不仅仅限于泰国。我们觉得是时候用我们的经验去为世界做贡献了，我们想利用它来让世界和地球变得更美好。为什么是我们三个人呢？因为我觉得三个人肯定比一个人强。（没错!）我觉得或者也是因为我们志向相投。（没错！）所以我们想要一起分享快乐和痛苦，所以一起创立了公司。我们彼此互补，而且我们永远会成为彼此的后盾。拥有三个伙伴对我们来说是一个很好的人生的旅程，没有我们其中任何一个人，这一切都不会发生。

The right circumstances. I think we start our career during the time of economic crisis. So, all three of us really start practicing professionally, I can say it in Singapore.So, after a couple of years, you seven?5 years and half/seven/four and half in Singapore and we missed home, and we want to come back.And we think that Thailand and also Bangkok like really in like badly needed landscape architects to do the right job so we started at Shma at that time.I think we want to bring some refreshing idea, and bring the experience that we have, and contribute back to Thailand, but not only Thailand, but I think it’s time that we would like to use our experienceand use it for the whole world, that's how we gonna make the use of it to make the world better and the earth better.I think why three of us is because we think that it’s better than one erson(exactly!).I think maybe because we thinkthe same way (absolutely), so we want to share the good time and the bad time together, and build the company together.We complement together,And we will always have someone watching our backs.It is good to have three of us, without one of us, it won’t happen.

▲Shma三位创始人：Namchai Saensupha、Prapan Napawongdee、Yossapon Boonsom

02

Shma的花园式办公环境非常独特，您觉得这样的工作环境对设计工作有什么益处？

The garden-style office environment of Shma is quite special. Do you think your working environment has any inspiration on the design process?

在我们一开始创办Shma寻找办公场地的时候，我们不想选在办公楼里。相反地，我们想要找一个像家的地方，最好还是带着小花园的。很幸运地，我们找到了这个地方。这里原本是一个住宅，我们把它变成了办公场所，保留了很多花园的空间，同时也提升了房子周围的花园。你看见的位于我身后的花园，实际上之前是个泳池。但考虑到我们不需要一个游泳池，所以我们把它改成了一个可以做项目的植物种植实验的花园。它因此变成了一个充满丰富的绿植，并给我们的同事提供了享受午餐和相互交流的场所。我认为，某种程度上，工作环境不仅仅是专注于你的工作，实际上这些穿插其中的活动非常重要。这些交流的时刻，或许好的新点子就从中产生。我觉得花园对我们来说是非常特别的存在。

So when we started the Shma and looking for the place for our office, we know from the start that we don’t want to be in the office buildings, but we try to find a place where is like a home that has garden itself.So luckily, we have found this place, which it was just a house before, then we just converted it into an office place, And we retained a lot of garden spaces, and also improve the garden around the house as well.The garden that you see behind me, actually, it was a swimming pool before.But we think that we didn’t need to use a swimming pool , so we turn it to be a garden to try out many plants that we want to use in our projects as well.And it become a nice variety of plants, and provide a place for our people to come out to enjoy the lunch and enjoy chit-chatting with each other.I think, in a way, working environment is not only focus on your work exclusively ,but actually the activities in between are very important.And those are times that people can discuss and then perhaps some new ideas could happen from there.So, I think our garden is very special for us.

▲Shma办公场地花园前貌的泳池，Swimming pool in front of the garden of Shma office

▲Shma将泳池改为植物种植实验的花园，Shma turned the pool into a garden for experimental plant growing

03

能介绍下Shma团队以及专长吗？

Can you tell us about the Shma team and their expertise?

首先我们的目标，是通过设计创造一个更好的地球。因此我们的目标是创造可持续的设计，这意味着我们需要很多的专业技能来实现它。 我觉得专业性从思考的过程开始，我们如何使用设计思维，如何通过头脑风暴来提出一种新的想法。这不仅在我们团队之间，有时我们还与客户及相关利益关联者一起workshop，思考如何获得非常独特的想法。其次我们还得研究如何通过景观将这些想法变为现实。我们与客户及相关利益关联者密切合作。还和园艺团队一起，不仅仅是单纯地做种植设计，还要为这个场地考虑栖息地或生态性。因此我们不仅要了解植物，还要了解人。那如何了解人们的行为呢？我们有一个专门的调研团队会去对人们进行访谈调查和分析，收集人们的想法用于设计中，使设计更丰富或更贴合人的敏感点然后到了施工图的部分，我认为是十分重要的。因为一旦你有了好的愿景和想法，你就必须很好地表达出来。所以我们专门有一个施工图审查团队，以确保我们所有的图纸能够精确的落实到场地上。然后是场地施工，我们和施工单位一起合作，确保每一个细节都能建出来。施工结束后，我们还有后续做反馈跟进的团队，确认及分析项目完工后的使用反馈。确保能收集相关数据，用于下一个项目的提升改进，在下一个项目做到更好。最后，我认为很重要的一点，我们会一起复盘所有完成的工作及从中所获得的知识。不仅仅是为了给我们的工作一个评价，也为了可以把它分享给到社会。因为我们如果想要实现可持续的景观设计，或是可持续的地球，那么所有人都应该意识到景观设计可以成为一个创造更美好社会的强有力的工具我想这就是我们试图从思考、意识、交流、分享及知识各方面去创造的“生态系统”。我们都有很专业的团队去挖掘，确保这些都能成为强有力的工具，相互作用从根本上改变世界。这就是Shma的专长。

I think it comesback to our goal, tocreatethebetter Earth through the landscape design.So,our goal is tocreatea sustainable landscape design.So that meanswe have to have a lot of expertise in order to realize them.I think the expertise start from the process in thinking. How we gonnause the design thinking,the way we can brainstorm and come out with arefreshingidea.Not only among ourselves, but also sometime we workshop withour client, with thestakeholder in order to gettingthevery unique idea.Secondly,we also look into how we gonna turn those ideas into reality through the design of the landscapearchitecture,working closely, activelywith the client andallstakeholders. And also works with horticulturist team, not only to design the planting,but also design the habitant or some kind of ecology for the place.And we need to also understand not only the planting,we also need to understand the people.How we gonna understandpeople’s behavior?We have theparticipatorydesign team in order to analysis and talking to people, finding the ideafrom the people to make the designeven richer or sensitiveto the people.And then comes to the retaliationof theconstruction part, I think this is very important. Becauseonce you havethegoodvision, you have thegood idea, you have to implement it well,so,we havetheconstructionmanagement team to make sure that the drawings are welldocumented with the very accurate program.And then looking atthe site,working with the contractor to make surethatthe details arewellconstructed.Andthenafter the site is completed, we also have a team to monitoringit, to make sure and analysis whether what would be the feedback after it completed.To make sure that we can collect the data, and improve our work later, in next project we will make itevenbetter.And lastly, I thinkit’salso important wegonna communicateall the workthat we have done,all the knowledgethat we found. Not only keep it as comments to ourselves, and also sharing to the society.BecauseI think to have a sustainable landscape design, or sustainable earth, everyone needsto be awareand awareofthelandscape design can bethetool tocreatea bettersociety.I think this is all theecosystemthat we try to createfromthinking/retaliation/communicate/sharingand also about the knowledge.we also have a team tofind in depth, andmake surethatall of these canbe the powerful tools to intertwine and change the worldto fundamentals.

▲项目施工环节配合跟进，Follow up with the project construction link

▲项目调研和沟通，Project research and communication

04

Shma想做什么样的景观？在泰国想通过景观创造什么样的体验呢？

What kind of landscape Shma prefer? And what kind of landscape experience Shma want to bring to Thailand?

Shma景观的核心价值观是可持续性设计。的确，因为我们都在与生物打交道：先是人类，然后草木，以及包含其他物种的生态环境，包括土壤中的微生物。因此，如何结合这些要素并且让其能长期宜居？与此同时，景观也在为用户提供服务。这意味着，即使设计的背景是可持续性的，但最终呈现出来的样貌也可以是非常独特的，有时是有趣的，有时是功能性的，有时是让人耳目一新且记忆深刻的。现在回答第一个问题的第二部分。土地和开放空间是最珍贵的，我们可以在我们的环境中加入景观的机会越来越少。因此，我们想带给泰国的是多功能和多用途的景观，一个区域有多种用途而不仅仅是单一目的。比如，在提供私人景观时，我们也试图让私人景观能被公众欣赏和共享。例如，商业空间和办公建筑的前广场，不建造栏杆，让部分空间在某些特定的时间也能开放给公众使用。又或者是可以给其他小动物提供食物和提供栖息地的景观，不仅仅是为了美观、装饰及营销目的。但是景观本身，正如我所说的，是越来越有价值，也越来越稀缺的，所以我们正在尽我们所能用有限的资源创造最大的价值。

The back bone of Shma landscape would be sustainability.Indeed, because we are dealing with living things: first is human, and then trees, and ecology which involves other species, including microorganism in the soil.So, how to combine all these things, and make it livable in a long-term?And at the same time, it serves the purpose of users.So meaning that, even though the background is sustainability, but the appearance of the final product of landscape it can be something very unique, sometimes it is fun, sometime is functional, sometime is very refreshing and memorable.To answer the second part of the first question, the land and the open spaces are the most precious things, and there are fewer and fewer possibilities that we can add the landscape into our environment.So our landscapes that we want to bring to Thailand, is the landscape that is multifunctional and multipurpose, one area that serves many purposes, not only sole purposes.For example, giving this private landscape, we try to make the private landscape can be enjoyed, can be shared to public as well.For example, the space in front of the commercial areas (and) office buildings, that have no fences, and some part of it can be accessed and used by public in some certain times.Or even the landscape that can produce foods and provide the habitats for other species, and small animals, not just for beauty, not just for decorations, not just for the marketing purposes,but the landscape itself, as I said, that is more and more valuable and scarce,So we are trying our best to achieve most out of that limited resources that we are provided.

▲空间的多样性 | Shma作品：FYI Center & Modena

05

您认为景观可以为环境和城市带来什么样的影响？

What do you think the impact of landscape on the environment and the urban city?

近年来，Shma参与了许多在曼谷以及附近城市的公共项目。我们始终谨记在高密度城市公共空间很稀缺这一点，因此所有的设计中，我们都考虑到这一点，我们知道城市共享公共空间是非常重要的。当一个又一个很小的空间连结起来，我们就能够创造一个更美好的环境，能对周边环境和城市生活品质产生更深远的影响。

Recently, Shma has been doing quite a lot of public projects in Bangkok and other cities around the regions.We always keep mind that the lack of open public spaces in the dense urban areas, so all the design, we have this in mind, and we know that sharing of the urban open spaces is important.And smaller and smaller parts, when combine, we can create a much better environment and make a bigger impact into the surrounding and the quality of life in the urban.

▲通过连接城市公共空间创造城市美好生活环境，Create a better living environment by connecting urban public Spaces

因此，我们正在做的所有项目，我们都试图让它更开放，让大众更容易亲近。即使有些项目在物理空间上不可进入，你不能真正走进去，但至少我们创造了视觉上共享开放的景观。人们也许可以透过栏栅欣赏私人空间的美好风景。因此，城市绿网空间的理念是显而易见的。总体来说是创造更美好的环境，带来更深远的影响。

So, I think all the projects we are doing, we try to make it more open and accessible by public.Even though some of the projects are not possible to access by physics, you cannot really go in there, but at least, we can share through visual, though openness.People maybe can look through the fence and into the good landscape in private areas.So the perception of urban green spaces is obvious, is more to combine and make the better and bigger impacts in overall.So the perception of urban green spaces is obvious, is more to combine and make the better and bigger impacts in overall.

▲Shma城市绿网空间理念，Shma urban green network space concept

在这样的理念之下，我们在设计的细节中结合了生物多样性考虑。我们考虑通过植物给予更多的可能性，通过开花授粉得到供其他物种如鸟类和昆虫享用的果实和花蜜。你知道，他们可以来这觅食，甚至住在我们新设计的景观里，这可以让城市环境变得更丰富更友好。因此，我们在城市环境中所做的新项目，不仅仅为物理、视觉和精神层面上的共享增加绿地和开放空间，也在生态环境上为其他物种提供了栖息地。

So with this, the detail we are putting inside the landscape that combines the much diversity of species.We are thinking about the plants, give chances, giving flowers, and have the fruits and nectar for other small species, like birds and insects.You know, they can come and utilize, or even live in the landscape newly designed.So that the environment in the urban areas can be more of rich and more friendly .So that the new landscape projects that we are doing in the urban contexts, not only increase the green areas and openness by sharing to physical, visual, or mental , but it also increases habitats for other species in the ecology as well.

▲空间的多样性 | Shma作品：One City Centre

06

泰国是一个有丰富水系的国家。能否分享一下Shma设计在水管理方面的经验？

Thailand is a country with multiple river systems. Could you share Shma’s experience in water management?

泰国中部，主要的河流系统-湄南河漫滩，起源于泰国北部，流经中部汇入海洋。其实在古时候，我们的祖先已经知道如何随着河流而定居。我们的祖先学会了避开河流上涨的区域。他们的定居选址不是去改变河流系统而是顺势选择河流下退流向海里的区域。我认为，现今的城市发展和乡村发展缺乏对雨洪管理的概念。因此，作为一名景观设计师，提出与水共生，思考如何设计适合我们现有水资源条件的土地是非常重要的。我们在曼谷近郊有一个已经建成的项目叫Jin康养小镇。在一开始，我们设计了一个基于绿地和水系基础设施概念的总体规划。我们开始梳理出水的肌理，这实际上成为了主要的设计核心。我们对全场地条件进行了测试，并以此定位了雨水排放收集点。

So, actually, most of Thailand, the middle part of Thailand, is actually, the Chao Phraya floodplain , which is the main river system, starts from the northern part of Thailand, coming down to the middle part of Thailand, and then goes out to the ocean.So in the old days, our ancestors already known how we do the settlements that go with the flow of waters.We(ancestors) tried to avoid the places that would have impacts of water rises from the rivers, our settlement is not kind of the fixed system but is something that can be adaptable to those when the waters try to come down to the sea.So, I think, nowadays, when we develop into the urbanization and countries, we are kind of lacking the ideas of how to deal with the water.So I think, being a landscape architect, it is very important that we can propose our ideas of how to deal with, how to design the lands that is appropriate for this water condition that we have.So we have done a project in the outer side of Bangkok called Jin Wellbeing County.From the start, we design a masterplan of it that based on green and blue infrastructure concepts.So we start to lay out the pattern of the water that essentially becomes the main core of the design.So we have the main little quiz that go cross the project, and use that as the water mitigation places.

▲基于绿地和水系基础概念分析 | Shma作品：Jin Wellbeing

因此在这个项目中，我们完全没有任何硬质地面排水，实际上我们选择用自然下渗作为主要方式去处理与水的关系。我们有效规避了洪水，同时，也可以利用这些水来帮助浇灌植物，让植物养护长远来看是可持续的。这也变成了令人赏心悦目的特色景观。因此，绿化也成为该项目一个很棒的景观特点，这是一个森林可以很容易生长而不需要太多养护的地方，这也是一个人们能来这欣赏水流，鱼儿能畅游，其他动物们也能自在生活的场所。我们认为通过将水融入设计，不仅能给人类带来影响，实际上也给自然带来了更大的影响。

So in this project, we don’t have the concretes drain at all, but actually we use the natural drain as the main way to deal with the water.We can avoid the flooding, at the same time, we can use the access water that come to be part of the water that helps to watering the plants, maintaining our green to be sustainable in the long future as well.And it also becomes nice landscape features for people to enjoy as well.so the green become one of the nice landscape features for the project as well.It is a place where the forest can grow easily without much maintenance.And this is a place where people can come to enjoy where the water flows, where the fish can enjoy, where the animal life can enjoy as well.We think that by integrating the water into the design, its impacts not just human, but is actually impact for the greater nature as well.

▲将水融入设计 | Shma作品：Jin Wellbeing

07

能看到Shma的设计理念在海外项目中也能有非常好的体现。能分享下你们为实现这样的成果做了哪些努力？

Shma's design concept is well acheived in oversea country as well. what kind of efforts did you do to achieve this?

实际上，我的第一份景观设计工作是在新加坡。我在新加坡工作的时候，我学习了很多项目经验，不只是在新加坡的，也有很多其他国际项目。因为在新加坡，他们服务于世界各地的项目。所以当我们回到泰国创办Shma的时候，我们也想把我们的服务扩展到国际标准。我认为在做国际项目的时候，对景观设计师来说，最重要的是要了解和理解我们项目所处的各个国家及其特定地区的实际情况。所以我们开始做大量的关于项目所处场地位置的研究，当然还有根据项目需求所做的场地分析。比如，在新加坡的丰树商业城项目。在这个项目里没有太多的空间留给景观，但实际上，立体停车场有大面积闲置的屋顶空间。因此，我们向客户提出采用森林的概念，希望将整个屋顶平台变成绿色景观。实际上，这个场地紧邻新加披最重要的自然保护区。因此，我们设想通过引入森林的概念，在我们的场地与森林实现生态价值上的链接。新加坡在屋顶绿化设计方面是非常先进的。这为我们带来了实现引入森林这个概念的机会。我们对土壤深度进行了处理，以确保所有的树木和植物能够在这个停车场屋顶上存活下来，并且能成长到和地面几乎一致的状态。这个项目已经完成了将近八年。我们重访项目，看到这些树木与之前在地面相比直接长成了大树，我们非常开心能看到这样的结果。

So actually, my first job in landscape architecture is in Singapore.So when I worked there, I gained a lot of experiences not only in Singapore but also international projects as well.Because in Singapore, they service kind of the worldwide projects.So when came out (and) we come back to Bangkok and opened Shma by ourself, we think we wanted to extend our service to the international standard as well.So, I think to do the international projects, the important thing for landscape architects is to really know and understand the actual condition of each country and each specific place that we are dealing with.So we start to do lots of research about the site location that we are dealing with, and of course the type of project that requires site analysis as well.For example, the project in Singapore, it is called Mapletree Business City.In this project, there are not much spaces left for the landscape, but actually, they have a lot of spaces on top of the car park podium.So we proposed our client that we wanted to turn the entire roof of podium into green landscape, with the forest concept.The site is actually adjacent to one of the most important natural reserves in Singapore.So we thought that by introducing the forest concept, we can connect the ecological value from the forest into our site.So, in Singapore, they are quite advanced in a way that they do green roof design.So it opens up our opportunity to do with activities with this concept.So we deal with soil depth to ensure that all the trees and plants on this podium can be survived and also can grow as close as possible into the way they grow on the ground.We have done this project for almost 8 years already. We have gone back and see that the trees directly grow to a very big size comparing to when they grow on the ground.So we are very happy to see this result.

▲Shma作品：Mapletree Business City II

另外一个例子是一个在印度浦那的项目，从孟买开车过去大概是三个小时。场地完全在一个山地环境里，有非常独特的季节变化。在旱季，几乎完全没有降雨，山上的所有植物都变得枯黄；但在雨季，因为丰沛的雨水，绿色又重现回归。因此在这不同季节的差异性下，我们希望创造能反映这种对比的景观。我们提出了景观提供地下存储空间以储存雨水的设想，这样我们就能在雨季保存雨水。在旱季来临的时候，这些与地面连接的地下雨水可以滋养在这个场所周围的所有树木。所以这成为了我们处理这个空间的主要思路，这对开发商有很大帮助，他们不必处理很多植物的养护问题。当我们了解场地的特性时，就可以利用作为优势，帮助长久地维护自然。

The other example is our project in India, it is located in Pune, it’s around 3 hour’s drive from Mumbai city.And the location that we work with exactly in a hilly environment, and it has quite unique, kind of seasons.In the dry season, there is no rain at all, everything on the mountain becomes yellow, but in the monsoon season, the green start to come back, because there is a lot of rains that comes in the monsoon season.So with this contrast in the seasonal conditions, we wanted to create the landscape that reflects this contrast.So what we proposed is the landscape that provide space to store the rainwater underneath the ground, so that we can keep the moisture on the ground during the monsoon season,But when the dry season comes, these water that connected on the ground level will help nurturing all the tree surrounding this area.So this becomes our main idea to deal with this space, and this help a lot with the developers doesn’t have to deal with a lot of maintenance on the plantings.when we understand the nature of the places , we can use that as our advantages, and use that to help to maintain our greenery in a long run.